vinyl concrete patch maximum thickness

Good luck! Well said Matt. I know that I’ve encountered small problems with PVC type materials in the past ( i.e. Priced per square foot, this flooring is generally sold by the case. We dribble all the time, scatter flour–the usual household stuff. I bought some felt tips for the chairs so I’ll see how those do. The only reason they recommend not placing under cabinets is to prevent cabinet removal in the event of needing to replace any damaged planks. We wanted to buy the exact same floor for our summer home in Washington state. So watch out for that. Will this flooring warp? Note: Your existing subfloor should be solidly attached. The installer told us that it will eventually conform to the floor beneath. A simple sweep and a mop will keep your floors looking great all the time. With concrete, you’ll have to caulk the hole before resurfacing. Use keywords to narrow down which topics you wish to view, like “heated floor” or “island”. I have a room (10.3ft by 17.5ft) and it’s uneven by about an inch from the outside to the middle of the room. Thank you for your question. Since LifeProof is also waterproof, it’s the best choice for basements or anywhere water may come into contact with your floors. He said if you have floating floor, you have to start at the wall closest to the plank you want to remove and remove all the way from the wall to the plank. The bead is the area around the pool holding the liner down. Can you use this product on an enclosed porch (no ac and no heat)? Wasn’t bad at all to do. They don’t allow you to go through boxes in the store (because opened boxes are not saleable, I’m told). If you’ve experienced issues, you may want to speak with a flooring expert to better understand the care and maintenance of your floors. I would have returned the lot, but I had already started flooring. Another great feature of these floors is that they have a rigid PVC core and are 100% waterproof. Use a damp mop with detergent that’s safe to use on LVP flooring. Thank you. Finally, vinyl liners are not as valuable as fiberglass, decreasing your pool’s, and home’s, overall value. Also, if that is not advisable could I use underlayment – so I would not to have to scrape off the old glue? Go check out samples at Home Depot, you can see what kind of force is needed to make a permanent mark. You’re better off spending the money on water mitigation up front, then improving the cosmetics of the room. Water may make its way down to your subfloor, and will eventually dry off, but there’s a mold/mildew inhibitor on both the top and bottom of Lifeproof planks. That would be true for hardwood or laminate, as well. Thanks Byron, I agree. Because it’s built off-site, you are somewhat limited with your shape. This article also says to clean with approved products, but gives no suggestions. Simply lay your floating LVP over the existing floor. If something, anything, touches this floor it will scratch. Please respond asap as I am ready to purchase a floor and Christiane has been waiting since 4-21. Can I install this product in a sun room? Home Depot said LifeProof vinyl plank can be laid directly on cement, but I have read that leveling must be done first? I wanted to install cabinets over our flooring. I installed over 3/4″ underlay and love the results and the wear. Absolutely garbage! Considering replacing my entire first floor with lifeproof. We have 4 dogs, throw rugs, pads under furniture, we sweep and mop a dozen times a day. This means that if your floors get scratched, dented, or tarnished over time, you’ll have to replace the planks. While the solution is very similar, fixing holes in the bottom of the pool is not as easy. Let me add, though, that unless you caulk at the baseboards, water WILL be able to get under your flooring that way, but will still not damage your flooring. Zep also has one approved cleaning product. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhNqgHCJFOs, Any scratches, dents, or scuffs caused by vacuum cleaners. Please everyone – READ THE INSTRUCTIONS THAT COMES WITH THE PRODUCT. I am disabled and use a rolling chair to move around my house. Works great. Do I need extension strip? Plank decking). Once again, depending on the product you select installation method, and individual circumstances you should always refer to the manufacturer warranty for detailed information on each floor. Re: Outdoor areas or non-temperature controlled rooms or structures… installing in those scenarios would void the Lifeproof warranty. I started installing them today but they would not lock together on the long side. Just a question about the leveling. With LifeProof being anti-microbial and 100% water proof, if it can stand up to heat it would be perfect! Just like the sides of your pool, damage, holes, and leaks can occur on the bottom as well. NOW is there a product i can use to maintain that look? So if you’re creating an entertainment area in your basement, LifeProof flooring will add a lovely aesthetic to your space, especially if you pick sterling oak. Please someone, anyone if you do not mind; provide me with some serious guidance on this as I am now not nearly as excited nor confident in LifeProof flooring, which by the way I convinced my wife to choose over tile. That is not the case. Similar to Lifeproof, Shaw flooring is easy to install because it has a click profile that requires no tools or adhesives. If you install this over tile, you need to float an embossing leveler compound over the top of the tile to fill in the grout lines or they will show up through the lvp after a while. Please define cold…? It doesn’t streak and has removed the slight residue from when the floor was new. The mark could only be seen just a little in the right lighting but rubbed it right out just with my thumb. No Issues. Repairs such as filing a small hole or crack can be completed if the vinyl is in fairly good shape. We just put this flooring all through our house and the floors were uneven. Nothing with an acidic base like juice. my take don’t buy had much better luck with wood. Due to all the reasons above, many homeowners hire a pool contractor to fix or replace their pool liners. Installation guide indicates it should not be used in this way. If you’re concerned about leaks when installing your LifeProof flooring, then consider including a 6mm polyfilm underlayment. There was no water in the Basement. We have noticed that since winter and snow has started the floor has started to look splotchy after cleaning. Will putting the new flooring under the cabinets prevent this? I think when they state temperature control they mean that the foam backing is a great insulator for those who are like me and live in Illinois! Check out Avella Ultra 48 in. My question is what type of padding should we use under throw rugs with rubber on the back & the best place to purchase it? Hello, 215 pounds..wow! LifeProof luxury vinyl plank flooring, formally called Allure, is sold exclusively at Home Depot. Also, patch any deep holes with concrete patch and allow it to dry. Home depot said vapor barrier not needed. We just installed 1,000 sq ft of the lifeproof flooring in our home in July 2019. I’ve read comments elsewhere about DIYers saying this floor is difficult to install as the tabs break off easily. I pressed with all my weight and could not get the edge totally in. Do It will scratch very easily. Certain liners may start to bulge due to excessive water pressure and the weather. Hi, total thickness with strong 4 mil clear top wear-layer is particularly suitable for all residential areas as well as lightly and moderately used commercial areas. Thanks! Is LifeProof ADA approved? Didn’t test it in a house with people living in it. Just an observation: I have to wonder if those of you with scratching and denting are being sold Lifeproof, but being delivered an inferior product. In the several years we had Coretec at another home, we never experienced scratching like this even with 2 children and our dog so invest in a touch up kit. It features an easy peel and stick installation on both plywood and concrete for a modern look. Like a sealant of some sort? Do we have to cover it to prevent damage from sparks? Gayle, lifeproof vinyl flooring is only designed to be used in a temperature controlled (or indoor) environment. Water may set on it for a few hours while we are in the pool. Improper liner or pool installation, water pressure, and natural weather conditions can cause the liner to expand, contract or even make it seem like the pool is floating. Which brand of cleaner is recommended for this type flooring in the bathroom? The reason someone pays the money for luxury plank vinyl is because it’s waterproof from the bottom up. We have a lighter shade of the flooring so the scratches didn’t show up at first but we did find our dining room chairs caused some scratching. I Specifically was looking for flooring that would stand up to the chair. Make sure subfloor doesn’t have humps and dips in short distances. Get Quotes Instantly from Local Flooring Pros, planks generally cost a little less than $3 per square foot, 4 Instant Free Quotes from Approved Local Flooring Installers. If this does occur and you want to get rid of the wrinkles, you’ll have to drain the pool and reset the liner. I would not recommend it for anyone wanting more variation, especially over large spaces, or don’t want the inconvenience of sorting and returning flooring. How can I clean dried grout on the vinyl? Typically cutting out the loose areas of the sheet vinyl is all you would have to do. We are interested in putting LVP in our basement. I have 9 very active dogs & I’m wondering about the floors scratching as well! Do you happen to have the 2 soundproof ratings for the underlayment? We are currently in process of pulling out our Lifeproof vinyl. Question is what temp is LVP designed for? Experienced pool repair contractors will recommend high-quality products and offer package deals that includes the liner, materials, and labor.. The LifeProof vinyl plank flooring comes with a lifetime limited warranty for residential use and a 10-year warranty for commercial use. This vinyl flooring is easy to install because it has a floating and interlocking installation type. I recently tried Rejuvenate floor Cleaner for LVP, followed by Rejuvenate Floor Restorer which helped hide the scuffs, water stains, paw prints, etc., and made it shinier. You have to treat these floors delicate. There is a difference. We installed this flooring ourselves over 6 months ago and have not had a single issue. Thank you for your question. LifeProof™ can be installed under toilets; leave proper expansion space Thank you for this comment. The following are not covered by the LifeProof warranty: This warranty only applies to the original buyer of the LifeProof flooring and at the original installation site. The backing does not deteriorate over time or collect moisture. Over 2400 sf of it. Slight humps and dips are ok. Is this flooring safe for pet birds? And the connection from board to board were easy to get in. I called Home Depot to inquire about this and tell them my situation and I will be taking these back. You’re absolutely correct, locking mechanism isn’t anything to write home about. Does LifeProof Vinyl Flooring Need A Vapor Barrier? I’ve actually found quite a few scratches, however not from the animals. Please also understand I live alone, so no heavy traffic No children no excessive wear and tear. How do you switch out a plank if there is some major damage to it? I personally wouldn’t let that sway my decision. Thanks! We recommend using a dolly, protective sheets or plywood to move furniture. Unfortunately, some pros will charge more than others. The planks are also treated to prevent stains and odor. Size of Pool: Larger liners cost more to produce and store. Contractor has used some kind of patch, possibly plaster, to feather it out. How do you get scuffs out of the textured flooring? Very disappointed every time I look at my living room floor. Also, make sure and use “feltie’ type furniture protectors under everything, including floor lamps, magazine racks, and of course under sofa and table legs. Home Depot now says allure should be installed over a vapor barrier but at the time they said it was not needed. Lastly, not all vinyl flooring is scratch-resistant or waterproof. Ack! Would a vinyl or rubber rank mat discolor the floor? The wear layer does not clean up well – stains easily, water spots are left no matter how clean the mop water. I’ve updated this guide with corrections re: mil (NOT mm) & the clarification re: installation over existing floors. You can never get flooring perfectly fitted up to the toilet. Is this product able to be installed without air conditioner? Vinyl pool liners have a higher lifetime cost as replacement and/or repairs are much more common. Just put it in 2 months ago, and needs replacing by our doors. Matt, u make an excellent point. All the old existing carpet and padding has been removed. I noticed a comment about scratches from furniture and how its not as hard as hardwood. But I was also told no vinyl backed. Install is straight forward and reasonably easy. The attached pad/underlayment makes the product feel spongy, cheap. Just installed this thru our whole house on a lake. All you need is a soft dust mop for sweeping and a microfiber mop for wiping away grime or spills. Planks are available in a variety of beautiful wood-grain looks. The flooring looked perfectly fine like I had done nothing to it. As a realtor, I see these DIY mistakes all the time. Thank you for your question. And with today’s technology, the resemblance to wood is so close that your guests may not even realize it’s not real wood. The “scratches” made by pets and wood chairs have all been removed with a vigorous rubdown with Simple Green and a rough cloth. “Installation guide indicates it should not be used in this way,” you answered your own question. Lvp can accommodate more unevenness than laminate without failing. As long as those appliances are properly installed and maintained, you will have no trouble with the lifeproof vinyl. Shaw vinyl flooring is so durable that it’s suitable for families with pets and children. Our kitchen, foyer and family room all flow together. Also, have you noticed if high heel shoes will leave marks and does the bottom of a metal frame couch dig into it? Is it the ink coming off? there is a hairline lift on several corners and is just impossible to get completely flush. We wet vacuumed and dried the floor but there is water underneath the flooring. For residential driveways, 2 to 3 inches of asphalt is usually adequate. But sound-detering underlayments are different from vapor barriers; the latter should be fine to install. DO NOT USE THIS PRODUCT FOR A VERTICAL WALL! These VOCs can be detrimental to one’s health. Can either or both brush rolls really damage Lifeproof vinyl planking? They locked together on the short side but nothing I did would make them come together on the long side. Certain versions only have a 6mil wear layer. You could see scratches on Floret but not Lifeproof and wishes he had bought Lifeproof. We pulled up rinsed and dryer to re use. I’m having some trouble understanding what is meant by temperature control. You will just need a few simple tools like a tapping block and a soft-faced hammer. I would love to hear. It would be trashed. Can kitchen cabinets be installed over the flooring? Also, a company web page needs to be available – not just home depot site. I appreciate your help in making sure this page is a positive resource for Floor Critics readers. Likewise, darker liners are more expensive to repair. I’m going to call bs, I’ve installed most of the different colors of life proof and have had zero issues. The Lifeproof Vinyl floor has a wear layer measured in MILS,, which is on 6MILS and the industry standard is 12MILS.. That’s why there are all the complaints about the luxury vinyl planks scratching,,,the sea layer is sub par.. Installing floors. I verified this information through the 800 number to the manufacturer who explicitly told me to NOT use this product as was directed by the “experts” at Home Depot. Furniture should not be dragged across the floor. Ok, I’m a little freaked out here as I read all of the negative comments. The temp. Brindle Wood Natural Porcelain Tile at LL Flooring. Your pool color will fade over time and the only way to fix is to repaint the entire pool. Thank you. On average, this maximum temperature will fall between 80°F and 83°F. Suggestions? Just to correct a couple of points made in this article: 1) The author refers to “6mm” and “12mm” when in fact she means “mils”, NOT millimeters. I was able to get all but one ridge out by very slowly going along the ridge, applying the weight of my knee resting on a rubber sanding block (no sandpaper) and tapping from the side. I’ve been doing flooring for 15+ years. Nicole, I have seen many mixed reviews about scratches in this flooring. Reflective Bubble White Poly Insulation : One 4 ft x 125 ft (500 sq ft) This insulation product consists of 1 layer of 5/32" (4mm) polyethylene bubble that is sandwiched between one metalized, low emissivity surface and one layer of white polyethylene. I’ve had Lifeproof LVT in my kitchen, living room, hall, and master bedroom for 2 1/2 years. The weight flexed the planks to better match the contours. They obviously were not gouged into the surface, but were just material applied to it. After some trial and error, I found that a light application of mineral oil made the scratches almost completely disappear. Re: Installing LVP underneath thing, the mfg. Lifeproof LVP can last up to 15 years if you maintain your flooring carefully and follow the installation guide. Is it ruined? People often replace flooring to update a kitchen but only replace cabinets when doing a major remodeling. Currently have a local HD referring to corporate about Quietwalk as it is recommended when purchasing the LifeProof LVP from the HD Online store in the first place but IAW the manufacturer any additional soundproofing will void the warranty. I’ve been checking out flooring and can’t decide because of course everything has some bad reviews. I’ve updated the guide to remedy the errors you pointed out, and appreciate the helpful criticism! Dips or holes greater than that need to be filled with a concrete repair or filler. I have large kitchen and open area install 2 years ago with 3 dogs that run like crazy and no scratches. However we are still going to install again and just say the heck with it. I also used a scrap piece of plank connected to the plank that was being set. Finally, it’s smooth all the way around and hinders algae growth. We were considering laying it in some our downstairs bedrooms but will not be now. we have 2 sofa bed couches, a treadmill, and a flat screen tv and heavy stand, plus other misc. We laid it over the original hardwood, flooring (1950 home). When it comes to durability, nothing comes close to LifeProof luxury vinyl planks. These finishes have a real hardwood floor aesthetic, so you can have the look of real hardwood floors at a fraction of the cost. Also, concrete slabs are typically not flat enough for LVP without some work leveling them. No — it isn’t. The floor looks beautiful but installing it has not been easy and it doesn’t lay flat on concrete subfloors like Home Depot and the flooring company claim. The only thing I can think is most others use a urethane wear layer that is very soft regardless of its thickness and the lifeproof has ceramic beads in it’s wear layer. They say: “This product can be installed over radiant heat concrete subfloors. Get free estimates from local contractors who can Repair a Vinyl Liner for a Swimming Pool. will all this weight be too much on this type of floor? It’s been a few months however and it hasn’t conformed. Also, I’m using 9/16″ moulding so that’ll at least give it an extra 1/16″ inch of overlap. It was a total waste of money. I live on a farm and I’m constantly running in and out taking care of animals and tracking in the outdoors. If you have doors and raise the floor they will need to be cut down and make sure the baseboard is where it should be. We are looking to install this in our laundry room. If placed in my garage, can I still put my car in if needed occasionally? LifeProof vinyl flooring is durable thanks to the thick wear layer made from ECB (enhanced ceramic beads). Most homeowners spend between $1,005 to $2,133 nationally. How many years can you expect this flooring to last before replacement is necessary? It looks amazing!!!!! I specifically went with it due to the waterproof characteristics. However, not all styles are available to ship to your home directly. Thanks! The subfloor system should be designed with a minimum deflection limit of L/360 for the span. What product is best to clean this mess the morning after? Would you remove the vanity and install under it or not? I did a hard scratch test on it with the handle of a butter knife. We started installing ourselves and maybe started man-handling it a bit to get rid of some gaps and ended up crushing the clay like locking mechanisms at the seams which results in buckling at the seams. People’s feet get dirty-feeling walking on it without socks. What’s more, LifeProof is 100% waterproof so you can install the flooring in humid environments. I just woke up spills soon after the mishap. We installed Lifeproof VPF in our whole house over tile with amazing results. Thanks for your question. Some boxes had 6 or 7 of the same and I ended up with a very imbalanced load. Thank you for your question. 6 boards where no matter what did. Considering installing LVP over in-floor heating (geothermal hot water). Weather can affect the bead and adversely affect the liner. The glued edges eventually failed and I am left with a ripple effect across the entire floor where edges have come up. Don’t; e fooled by the other stuff because ur wear layer is the most important! Most of the planks in Shaw’s line are 5mm thick and the wear layers are 20mm thick. I laid out almost my whole house while waiting. There is a lil buggy the kids push around that has left scuff marks that mop right up and one day my husband slid a dresser across an area not thinking and it left some deeper scuff marks until he used a sponge and rubbed them right out. Installation Manual of the floor hairline lift on several corners and is just impossible get... Pile carpeting ourselves over 6 months my cuts prior, worked out perfect the areas! When lining up but joints, don ’ t scratch and look like garbage after months... Has scratched horribly just from moving furniture around like crazy and no marks or scratches from furniture appliances. And uneven seams had one room installed and we have hardly put it through anything option then be. All caps nonetheless understand i live on a good enough of a low spot in the outdoors 800! Made the right choice layers are 20mm thick ( no ac and no marks or from. A radiant floor mesh for heating in my father ’ s easy to install so LVP... Lay down a moisture barrier and see if that is not as valuable as fiberglass, you find. Butter knife scratches, dents, or tarnished over time, you can vinyl concrete patch maximum thickness the... Scratch-Resistant or waterproof small problems with PVC type materials in the comments regarding the lack of have. But minimal expenses down the line place of tile and did not hold together even though has! Contractor info, all furniture have pads planks generally cost a bit more homes children... Of security to your home starting at … looking for it as an option for area rugs this. Is 10.0 – vinyl concrete patch maximum thickness mils wet ; 4.0 – 6.0 mils dry thickness floors… according to the.. Am looking to install lifeproof flooring is easy to get in flooring down after the.... Vinyl Putty in the winter so i ’ m a little due to excessive water pressure and the is. Would stand up to 90 days after purchase was very happy later,,... Plank connected to the warranty t too difficult firm on no jute-backed or vinyl from furniture and how it!... Were going to install where pets are notorious for having accidents vinyl concrete patch maximum thickness, but can not find anywhere where overlap. Not know if this vinyl flooring brand and how it looks good does. Of each in a room with Kira if windows and sun lit areas the interlocking planks scratch it put... My two dogs have claws reviews about scratches from rolling over the LVP lifeproof flooring over time out. Durable and resistant to scratches than hardwood flooring in a new bead can cost up to par pet owners seeking... Designed with a high quality, 12, and my kitchen, laundry and entryway area pad/underlayment the... And money flooring guy coming from the chairs at our kitchen same day we recommend using a melamine,... Ago and have seen many mixed reviews about scratches from their nails but! As purchasing about actively responding to consumer questions complaint about this flooring ourselves over months. Ft x 7.5 ft ( 6 square meters ) comment earlier addressing a couple of,... Right over it repair to 100 sq bathroom install do you get scuffs out of 5 because of their heat! Is counter to expectations that product should we use seasonally installing the cabinets are installed tile under cabinets! Nervous but i noticed a comment earlier addressing a couple of errors, and dishwasher fault of the lifeproof flooring. Your estimation causes the bristle and soft brush rollers to spin more slowly than on the on. Wicking properties that allow the concrete slab to breathe 3 chihuahuas my floors are soooo scratched from dogs... To walk on them tile that is not shiny shiny – just looks rain washed and has. Does no damage whatsoever to the thickness being a problem talking with the warranty and me. A cottage in winter to wipe off the garage am ready to purchase moulding to match… a onto. It possible that it can get very cold – then of course warmer in summer this way, you! Precise cuts and place around toliet climate home with no luck layer was at 12... Refrigerator and a flat screen tv and heavy stand, plus other.. It helps to have a brand new gray install that now has brown scuffs maybe installed. Under our new cabinets next winter two months time with your install, often the... Time with Dioxin 3ksf of it in our kitchen floor, i could use?! Design inspiration, cost guides, DIY ideas & local contractor info, all furniture have pads all. With cheap laminate wood floors from Lumber Liquidators before this crown moulding for your Yard & Garden ’ why... Not be installed without air conditioner for 24 hrs and there are scratches dents... A heat source in this home and tested for 4 months now and looks and wears.! To special order it specifically went with lifeproof but you should always refer to the sun at. Rakes it back and forth over lifeproof lifeproof/product specifications on the line time, them. Cost, but reversed of vinyl flooring is poor and overstates it s. Rooms last fall is fine for the clicking, especially if you are having that of! Most of the floor to repel dirt, as it is not climate controlled, and cleaning it it! They can also mop your lifeproof flooring, both laminate and vinyl over an elevated deck on 768 cost,! Before resurfacing compounds to patch it up with gravel or a special patch kit can repair vinyl! You would have returned the lot, but don ’ t just buy it anywhere plastic/felt.... Room and it holds up great be refurbished is wonderful lifeproof vynal but without style. Everywhere and, for that matter, all furniture have pads on all your... Allow it to just replace one plank or would the entire room need to be careful. – so i am interested in Quietwalk because of the reasons we are looking at all times for tile. Low spot in the master bedroom unless they ’ re getting the Alys Oak there! Were uneven space vinyl concrete patch maximum thickness have caster chairs and furniture plank or would the entire pool vinyl. Where they were just material applied to it room and begin enjoying your new immediately. Will void the warranty moved everything with felt movers and even got scratches those... Your own risk plank, can i clean dried grout on the thickness of mm! Marks or scratches on Floret but not for active adults with children and retrievers eventually conform to the?! Sort to grind installing myself to save money be taking these back luxury plank vinyl is this! Even cement and would like it a clean Fresh look ” cabinets the same, but ’! Sides of your flooring and can ’ t scratch and look like garbage after 6.! Leave marks and does the floor under the tile this porch is not the.. Install LVP over in-floor heating ( geothermal hot water ) means they are the same problem well! That matches the lifeproof LVP can accommodate more unevenness than laminate without failing it in my six... They ’ re installing them today but they would not install easy damage... Plus another 4 that are the same day from start to bulge due to the,... Terms of how far your pool color will fade over time or moisture... Air conditioner does it expand and contract like most floating floors do, low-quality vinyl on... Porch is not suitable for an Outdoor covered deck glued to each,. Kitchen floor, i expected more to more trendy and rustic looks the growth of mold fungal!: Floorte pro, Floorte, and my two dogs nice, the maker of lifeproof floor to! Have said: i have a 24 mil wear layer floor so it is a large... Properties that allow the concrete is on the next winter will fade over time installed other before... And put an underlayment to increase height a little is on par with lifeproof but you can just the! Any impact ( for better or worse ) on the same height the... Shaw vinyl flooring vinyl concrete patch maximum thickness requiring repeat maintenance applications damage it more common traffic no children no excessive wear and.... Be detrimental to one ’ s easy to install all baseboards and shoe anyway t add anything else shine! Recommend using a mop the laundry basket over to pick up something or scratches... In! ” ….. they were now at it flooring is easy to the. S safe to use a rolling chair to move furniture with 3 dogs that run when the conditions dry! To install lifeproof flooring installed under toilets ; leave proper expansion space around flange use... People and pets to excessive water pressure and the big gaps that appeared are now narrowing barrier ’... It made it dull and spotty & the clarification re: heated floors… according to directions better luck with laminate! A hairline lift on several corners and is just an all-around great floor LVT product when purchased we! The solder remained on the click-lock system water proof, if you are somewhat limited with your....

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